MINUTES OF MEETING
CORAL SPRINGS
IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT
The regular meeting of the Board of Supervisors of the
Coral Springs Improvement District was held on Monday, April 18, 2005 at 4:00
p.m. at the District Office, 10300 NW 11th Manor, Coral Springs, Florida.
Present and
constituting a quorum were:
Glen Hanks Secretary
Also present
were:
George R.
Keller, Jr. Manager
Dennis Lyles Attorney
Dan Daly Utility
Billing
Roy Kroker Severn
Trent Services
Jean Rugg Severn
Trent Services
Roger Moore District
Staff
Joni Hayworth District
Staff
Mr.
Sorrenteno Navarro
Security Group
Mr. Reyes Navarro
Security Group
Various
Residents
Mr. Fennell called the meeting to order and Mr. Keller
called the roll.
SECOND ORDER OF BUSINESS Approval of the
minutes of the March 21, 2005 Meeting
Mr. Fennell stated each Board member received a copy of
the minutes of the March 21, 2005 meeting and requested any additions,
corrections and deletions.
There
not being any,
On MOTION by Mr. Eissler seconded by Mr.
Hanks with all in favor the minutes of the March 21, 2005 meeting were
approved.
FOURTH ORDER OF BUSINESS Staff
Reports
Manager – Security Matters
(Navarro Security Group)
Mr. Keller stated at the last meeting the Board took action concerning the
security service provided by Navarro. We
were to provide immediate notice that the armed security was to be reduced to
unarmed security as soon as possible, given the provisions of the contract, and
also indicate probably by fiscal year ending September 30th at the
latest we will no longer continue with those security services. We have provided written notice to Navarro
Company and they submitted a written response indicating they wish to be here
today to address the Board on the matter.
We have Mr. Sorrenteno and Mr. Reyes from Navarro present.
Mr. Fennell stated
welcome. Let me prefix what our decision
was last month. It has no reflection on
your services; we have been very happy.
We started off with a whole phase update looking at our facility and at
the time, like everyone else in the country, we thought we were going to get
attacked by Mohammad Atta, who lived right behind us, and we figured he had our
number and we should take some precautions.
Since then this other group heads that kind of security and we are going
to back off and let the U.S. Government worry about our security. We are an $8,000,000 company and the expense
for security is $350,000 a year; that is as much as our management
company. We are not firing you, we are
looking to cut it off and turn it around.
Mr. Reyes stated Navarro
wanted to tell you we are going to be here even if we no longer provide
uniformed security; we also provide assistance for the alarm systems, cameras
and such. We will still be here as far
as the technical support is concerned.
The cost comes into play with a lot of accounts, be it governmental or
in the private sector. What I took the
time to do was put together four different options as far as budget is
concerned. We looked at armed versus
unarmed as far as showing what your overall cost will be, what we perceive is
your savings per year, even down to using golf carts as opposed to using mark
patrol vehicles and going to at least one guard per shift at the gate. Option 1 is $357,184, I combined North and
South. If you were to extend this for an
entire year for both Districts the savings going from armed to unarmed is
$73,344. As you look at Options 2, 3 and
4, you will see the cost versus the savings.
Mr. Eissler stated we do
not have any say in that.
Mr. Reyes stated I know I
put it as one account as far as manpower is concerned and such.
Mr. Fennell asked how many
hours per week is Option 2?
Mr. Reyes responded 168
hours.
Mr. Fennell asked is there
an option for night security? Our
biggest issue has been security at night; we used to have police. Would that option cost extra?
Mr. Reyes responded if you
look at Option 3, it includes one security officer each shift and the cost is
$292,000, split in half $142,784 a year.
Mr. Fennell stated so it
is roughly $150,000 a year for 1 security guard per shift.
Mr. Reyes stated that is
for three shifts. The savings will be
greater if you make it two shifts.
Mr. Fennell stated this is
smart on your part and we thank you for it.
We know we do not need as much but we know we do not need zero. There has been thought about trying to roll
it into our own personnel.
Mr. Keller stated Mr.
Moore has additional information on it, in terms of physical barriers and
technology.
Mr. Moore stated looking
at unmanned security after hours and after a minor evaluation of the site, the
L shaped which is half the perimeter of the residences has a 4’ fence. Some of it has top rail and some has no
rail. We had several incidents with kids
either cutting it or coming over it.
Whether we keep armed security or not, keep Navarro or not, I recommend
we increase the fence to match the rest of the fence line at 6’, with or
without barbed wire. Everything is 6’
adjacent to the property and has barbed wire on it. The 4’ section has no top rail or barbed
wire; to match it varies from $16,000 to $23,000, depending on barbed wire or
vinyl.
Mr. Fennell asked why 6’
not 12’?
Mr. Moore responded 6’ is
the standard and the rest of it is 6’.
You can go to 8’ if you want; of course the cost is higher. Most of our facilities have 6’ fences with
the additional 2 ½ ’ 3-strand barbed wire.
One of the problems with the trees and the berm no matter where you put
the fence you can in some places climb the fence and jump over.
Mr. Hanks asked do we need
to retain the services of an arborist?
Mr. Moore responded we can
trim the branches but the trees themselves are fairly adjacent. There is also an old agreement which says we
maintain the berm. To put in a two
camera system; one with a box at the front entrance to open the gate, and three
receiving cameras; one at reception, one at the operator and one at the second
reception, so there is always someone to open the gate was approximately
$15,000.
It gives you two cameras, one to view the person who pushes the button and
one to record the license plate. The
third is access control similar to sun-pass.
A box is elevated 10’ in the air, the unit is about twice the thickness
of a credit card goes on the driver’s side of the windshield. As you drive up to the gate, it registers the
card, opens the gate and you come through.
The exit will be a free exit, for example if we allow our chlorine, et
cetera to come in, when they exit, the gate will automatically open. The second unit will record all employees so
there will be a time stamp of all employees coming and going. The cost is approximately $19,000. The total cost is between $51,000 to $58,000
to install that type of limited access to the facility. This is for existing locations, we had
problems with the city and if we go further with any type of guardhouse we have
to move the gates back and is not included.
It also does not include some work we have to do here for relocating
some of the fence on our staff time.
Mr. Keller asked what
about annual operating cost and maintenance cost? Anything significant?
Mr. Moore responded I do
not have a price. They are willing to lease
the equipment, at $3,000 a year over five years. The fence company is basically no, put it in
now. The access control they are willing
to lease purchase also. I do not have a
cost on the maintenance but I do not think it is extremely high. The cards include 100 cards; the cards are
approximately $8 to $10 each when you buy a new card.
Mr. Eissler stated this
does not take into account the canal.
Mr. Moore stated
correct. We were looking at a couple of
different technologies. At this time the
canal is protected by a Navarro system.
We are looking to get that up and running, right now it does the entire
perimeter. I talked at one time to
Navarro about taking two-thirds of it down to only protect the water side. We also looked at what I call phase 2, this
will be phase one, somewhere down the road in a future budget of either putting
a fence up around that side. There is
also some technology out there with buried cable that is around $20,000. The wire is buried and any type of movement
of the wire is detected and sets off an alarm, instead of the microwave and
laser we have today.
Mr. Fennell asked where is
this stuff hooked up to?
Mr. Moore responded at
this particular time the only monitoring we have is on the building on the
wall. If it is on and activated and
security is breached it calls Navarro’s office.
They then notify the person on call.
If we eliminate their people all together it can be transferred to
either the security system we have now, which is Cypress Trace, this building
and that building alone have an alarm system on them that if the alarm is
breached the door goes off. It was
supposed to call Cypress Trace and then they called the police. I thought it was changed to call someone who
actually works here before calling the police because we had a couple of false
alarms. What I am also looking into to
reduce cost is have an electronic telemetry system so this building and that
building and the Navarro systems can be linked into one and make one phone call
to one person.
Mr. Eissler asked do you
have any suggestions from what you just heard?
Mr. Reyes responded we
have discussed some of the items like moving the perimeter, we have already
expended the dollars. It would probably
be a limited amount of cost; we were going to have the ability to put a trench
and the same type of cabling in. It is
something that has just been declassified as far as the military is
concerned. It will pick you up from 6’
on either side. You cannot jump over it,
we have used it at some of the larger more exclusive residential areas in Palm
Beach County, our experience has been some difficulties with it, according to
the amount of traffic coming over, how they cut the grass, how they do
different things. Even though it is
under the ground there is going to be a certain amount of maintenance to it if
it breaks or a line is cut. In my
personal opinion it is not very cost effective.
I understood from the beginning, and it might have been previous
management, that Cypress Trace was supposed to call our security dispatcher who
would notify our security team on property and let us evaluate if the police
needed to be notified. Why that was not
done or continued to be done is beyond me.
Mr. Fennell stated we need
to get that straightened out.
Mr. Reyes stated it is
real simple, we have other alarm companies call us all the time and tell us a
property we secure has an alarm going off.
We respond rather than the police department because the police department
is going to charge you $125 for a false alarm.
Mr. Fennell asked what
will be your roll if we eliminated all the people but still have a security
system?
Mr. Reyes responded
Cypress Trace is your current provider for these buildings and we are providing
the uniformed security and the monitoring if the building is activated.
Mr. Fennell asked do you
have guards off the property that could come?
Mr. Reyes responded
absolutely.
Mr. Hanks asked do we need
Cypress Trace?
Mr. Moore responded I do
not think we need them, but we are evaluating that now.
Mr. Eissler stated we can
put the fences up, if we decide we want night-time security, or just someone to
respond if something happens; there is nothing wrong with that.
Mr. Lyles stated that
might be a way to go. Do what we can for
physical security and then have a response system, which does not necessarily
have to be the police, but given that we have a better system somebody can come
check it out.
Mr. Eissler stated I would
like to think about that.
Mr. Fennell stated if we needed
to step up from that we could go back to night security.
Mr. Eissler stated but
initially we do want to eliminate the armed guard.
Mr. Reyes stated we are
taking steps to do that.
Mr. Eissler stated beyond
that, we need to decide what we want to do.
The pricing is not bad; the fencing is pretty straightforward. I guess we need barbed wire.
Mr. Moore stated I would
like to match the existing black vinyl, which is a little more.
Mr. Eissler stated we have
some nice homes over here, too.
Mr. Moore stated you
cannot see the fence line except for in the one section of sidewalk where the
kids walk and if you put a black vinyl fence there with the barbed wire you not
going to see it.
Mr. Hanks asked does it
matter if the barbed wire is facing out or in?
Mr. Reyes stated you want
it facing out because a person is going to approach and try to climb over
it.
Mr. Keller asked is it
allowed in the city for this use?
Mr. Moore responded it is
not allowed in the city but the city has used it in some cases.
Mr. Lyles asked are there
any provisions in the city code that would prohibit this? If they do turn their heads is that going to
help us when we do get a lawsuit and look at this is in violation of city code
and they chose not to enforce it. They
are protected by sovereign immunity from that decision not to enforce but we
are not protected by sovereign immunity if we intentionally violate a
regulation which prohibits that kind of fencing and causes harm to
somebody.
Mr. Moore stated we have
to get a permit and I am going on the fact that we will be matching existing
fencing we already have. There may be a
rule prohibiting this and I will bring it back to the Board, but first we have
to check it out.
Mr. Fennell stated the
sense that I am getting is that we would like to get quotes and proceed with an
improved fence system and with a response system.
Mr. Hanks stated before we
go ahead unless we want to structure whether or not we have barbed wire on it
we may want to consider getting feedback from the city on what is allowed in
city code.
Mr. Fennell stated we want
to go to a more secure physical system.
We still need a response system and we should integrate the ones we have
with Cypress Trace or whoever, frankly it should be whoever is going to
respond.
Mr. Hanks asked as far as
response do we have Knox boxes on the gates?
Mr. Moore responded they
were deactivated due to Navarro coming and the gated being manned 24/7. It was there for the fire department.
Mr. Hanks stated with any
of the options we were discussing earlier we need to make sure there is a means
for EMS to access.
Mr. Eissler stated we may
want to keep night-time security.
Mr. Fennell stated that is
why I have this response thing. If they
can respond they can also do security.
Mr. Eissler stated what we
are trying to do here is save some money, but still have a relatively secure
facility.
Mr. Reyes stated the final
option I was looking at was, and I do not know how the two districts handle
things as far as finances, you can have one patrol officer in one patrol car
coming in and out of both districts, patrol the area and respond to any
need. Even if he is on the north side he
can turn around and come back quicker than responding from somewhere in Broward
County where our response teams are at.
We can use detects so we know where he is at on the property plus we
have the 24 hour dispatcher we are actually communicating with.
Mr. Fennell stated what we
want you to come back with is a design for the fencing in the area, a unified
security system, and what would be the additional cost of the shared
security.
Mr. Keller asked should we
proceed with the cameras and some of the other items?
Mr. Fennell responded
yes. We are looking to make it as
physically solid a package as we can. It
has to be a unified package and looking to who is going to be notified.
Mr. Hanks asked is this
going to affect our operator’s performance?
Whichever task they are working on is this going to affect their performance? Once we remove the guards from the gate are
they going to see an increase in the number of people coming to them?
Mr. Fennell responded it
may, I do not know. Obviously, somebody
is going to have to be here during the day monitoring it. There are probably going to be more people
coming in and out than there were before since the guards are a deterrent.
Mr. Keller stated during
the daytime we can have three different locations. At night-time you are going to have minimal
visits.
Mr. Fennell stated while
we are putting this together there is obviously some type of communication and
alarm system going on, is there any other thing you want to tie into that? Any other type of safety feature?
Mr. Moore responded I have
alarm systems coming through another system that is going to be notifying the
operators when I have a problem somewhere on the site. We were looking at possibly merging
these. For example, what actually
happens if the alarm goes off in this building or that building Cypress Trace
calls one of our maintenance guys who lives around the corner and he comes over
and physically looks the place over. We
now have a system that will have multiple call lists. It can call anybody off site until it gets
someone. We have a few different options
of melding this together and remember we have a minimum of two people on site
at all times.
Mr. Hanks asked if there
is an intruder into one of the facilities, do we really want one of our
employees checking it out?
Mr. Moore responded at this
time we have no monitoring system up and running. Let’s assume we do have a monitoring system,
we have a violation and it beeps the operator if we have a security
breach. My opinion would be if he sees a
security breach and it beeps the operator, he would not call anybody, he might
get a call off to his supervisor, but he would call the police
immediately.
Mr. Hanks asked when you
say check it out, it is not our intention to have staff members here physically
pursuing people?
Mr. Moore responded no.
Mr. Reyes stated we are
monitoring a system right now, if everything is running properly and there is a
perimeter breach the cameras come on and the people in dispatch are able to see
what is going on. They are able to back
up the recording and actually see the person.
Mr. Fennell asked do we
have any other type of sensors around?
Mr. Moore responded we
have a chlorine alarm.
Mr. Fennell asked how do
we get alerted for that?
Mr. Moore responded it is
like an air raid, it is pretty loud and we have an evacuation plan.
Mr. Fennell stated at this
time we need to put together a unified alarm plan. We have security needs and safety needs;
which actually may be more important than the security needs. We are looking for a proposal that makes sense
on an overall basis. How are you going
to tie all of this together? Who is
going to do the planning?
Mr. Moore responded we
need to come up with an exact scope. We
have talked about several different things and maybe even phasing it. I see your direction is to minimize the guard
at the front gate to let people in and out, so we are going to proceed with
looking at increasing the fence and a system to allow employees and people in
and out. Next is going to be maybe one
or two options in response. I will work
with Navarro or put together a bid spec whether you want night time security or
roaming guards to split between North Springs and here and have a part B to
that. As I said before the part A phase
1 will be used with or without keeping Navarro on. Then I have to figure where the response is
going to go to. Do we continue Cypress
Trace? Do we work out something with
Navarro to be the responder or as responder along with providing us a floater
or a full or half timer between districts.
I will do whatever direction you give me.
Mr. Fennell asked do we
need somebody to design a system for us?
We currently have a perimeter system that is not working.
Mr. Reyes responded it is
working. They will not activate it
because of the shrubbery.
Mr. Moore stated you
activate it and about ten minutes later it goes off.
Mr. Fennell stated then we
do not have a system.
Mr. Reyes stated with the
components we are talking about we have the ability to put that together for
you. Then we can factor in the elements
you want.
Mr. Keller stated if you
come back to us with a package I will distribute it.
Mr. Fennell stated it has
to be a system we can turn on.
Mr. Keller stated bottom
line is you have to have an effective system in whatever the components of it
are so it works and works at the level we need.
Mr. Eissler stated we
should include night-time security.
Mr. Fennell stated I
appreciate what you did here in coming forward.
The districts do make separate decisions. Each of us are a different funded board and
we are basically looking for something for this plant. You may want to include response to some of
our pump stations.
Mr. Moore stated we are
getting there. We are running some tests
and are hoping within four to five months it will also have the same type of
system where it will call out the repair people and could be incorporated in
this.
Mr. Keller stated I will
follow up. You can continue to consider
the additional proposals from Navarro as we go through the budget process. We will be working with you in the coming
months on that for next fiscal year.
Mr. Hanks stated one more thing while we are looking at the security. Are we going to be faced with the same issue
about the guardhouse turnaround if we have a call box or other type of
transponder?
Mr. Moore responded
possibly. We cannot permit it as a
stacking lane. We have a call box now,
whether or not it was permitted at any particular time, we are just going to
upgrade the electronics to it and leave it where it is at. We had numerous discussions with the city if
I put in a guardhouse that meets current standards I have to move the gate
eight to ten car links, which is another significant problem all by itself,
that is why we have talked about just leaving the gate open. I believe with the technology we have now the
investment should probably work because as you come up the gate will open and
other than some construction traffic you are pretty good distributing traffic
throughout the day.
Mr. Hanks asked how is
that going to work with the construction?
Mr. Moore responded we
will have to notify contractors coming to the gate. As a final note we had numerous calls besides
Navarro’s wanting to know when we are putting this back out to bid. You have some options even if you decide to
have an unarmed person or a monitoring system.
Mr. Eissler stated we need
to go out to bid on it.
Mr. Hanks stated it is a
big contract we should go out to bid on it.
Mr. Fennell stated we want
vastly improved security systems and we also want a response system.
Mr. Eissler asked can you
find out what we pay Cypress Trace?
Mr. Keller responded
yes.
A.
Attorney – Lake Maintenance
Agreement with Lake Coral Springs Association
Mr. Fennell asked do we
have anything on the lake maintenance agreement?
Mr. Lyles responded we are
status quo. There are some details with
cost items that they have requested and they are in the process of being
supplied.
THIRD ORDER OF BUSINESS Consideration
of Resolution 2005-3 Designating George R. Keller, Jr. as Signatory on the
District’s Safe Deposit Box
Mr. Fennell stated it was a great meeting we had last week and brought up a
lot of issues and helped me to understand more of what is going on.
Mr. Keller stated item
number three is a seemingly small item.
I am told the District has a safe deposit box at the Wachovia bank in
Coral Springs and has for many years though there is no described need for that
to continue. We are happy to save a
little money for the District and close it out.
Nobody is quite sure what is in the box, if anything, or of any
value. To go into the box, clean it out
and actually close it out we need someone who is a current representative
authorized by the District Board, per the bank, to be able to do that.
Mr. Hanks asked do we have
a key?
Mr. Keller responded I
have seen no key.
On MOTION by Mr. Hanks seconded by Mr.
Eissler with all in favor Resolution 2005-3 Designating George R. Keller, Jr. as Signatory
on the District’s Safe Deposit Box was adopted.
FOURTH ORDER OF BUSINESS Staff
Reports
i.
Monthly Water & Sewer
Charts
Mr. Fennell
asked what represents what the customer sees?
Do you think we are being guardians of the customers with these?
Mr. Eissler responded this tells us where we are. I assume these are maximum and minimums of
State and Federal standards and we meet all of them.
Mr. Moore responded within all limits.
Not to change the charts or anything but if you notice you always have
twelve months. I will be more than happy
to put just this months on. You look at
the same information eleven times.
Mr. Fennell stated I would like to
see two things. One would be customer
complaints, what they were that month and the second would be any odor issues. Is there any kind of control for that?
Mr. Moore responded stated we have maintenance. After so many hours on a pump, they get
greased. If we have to shut down our
procedure is this: as we take down a plant we call the agencies ahead of time
and tell them we are taking a plant down.
Before the hurricane the shafts on Plant B broke, we called and said it
broke. Any repercussion of that, such as
overflowing or having to go to our ponds, is in our emergency procedures and
you can expect anything to happen when our plant does not work. We call the agencies and say we do not know
what is going to come out of it. When we
have to take something down it can generate odor for a day or so, we know that
and we make them aware of it so when somebody complains they can tell them they
have been notified by us and we are making repairs and you may experience
discomfort for a couple of days.
Mr. Fennell stated what I would like to see is some kind of control where
we can see we are getting close to a problem and therefore we have to take some
kind of action.
Mr. Eissler stated you cannot predicate when something is going to happen;
if you could you would have a fail safe facility and you could fix it before
hand.
Mr. Moore stated we test the volumes everyday. When there are certain volume of solids we
waste them. There are processes out
there and you run it. As long as the
plant is ran as efficient as you can run it you are going to minimize the odor,
you cannot ever eliminate the odor.
Mr. Fennell stated no but you can judge which way it is going.
Mr. Moore stated we do a dissolved oxygen test everyday. If it needs to be adjusted, they do so. It is a day-to-day operation and
unfortunately it is not just flip a switch, it takes a week for a plant to
adjust. You can adapt the best you can but
it is not instantaneously.
Mr. Hanks stated on the inflow diagrams for water treatment and waste water
treatment you may want to track down when we are getting the
infiltrations.
Mr. Moore stated I already have a program in place.
ii.
Update on Construction Analysis
and Capital Improvement Plan for Next Five Years
Mr. McKune stated we have tweaked the capital improvement plan several
times and it has been presented several times.
We are currently working with Severn Trent Services on the fiscal
portion of the plan. I do not know that
the two of us have had the time in the past month to really put it together
because of just cause meeting.
Mr. Keller stated what we had planned on next week the Vice President, Mr.
Ed Goscicki, Mr. McKune and myself sitting down to finalize both where we are
at on the capital package itself and if we have any agreement or disagreement
and put together some different variables in terms of how do you finance
it. Then bring you the pieces with our
recommendations and go forward. The
timing is perfect right now. The good
news and bad news is that everything is happening at the same time as we go
through the budget process. It is good
that we had the workshop and are talking about the capital improvement
plan. Today we received a draft of Mr.
Herb Marlowe’s summary report on the workshop we have just gone through.
Mr. Fennell asked have you done this with North Springs?
Mr. Keller responded we have not. We
offered it to them and they expressed interest in doing it. It fairly represents the issues that were
taken from the picture down to how do we actually get to specific goals and
actual steps on implementation. The key
is we have some identified goals and areas we want to focus on. What I recommend to you is the key people be
involved in all issues here that work for the District are in almost all cases
the same people involved in the collective budget process. In the past the budget was done by maybe one
person. It may work but I do believe it
is more productive and a better process if we have a collective use of all the
resources throughout the organization. A
few weeks ago, we started working on a collective budgeting process involving
people from Operations, Human Resources, Administrative, Field Operations and Internal
Processes. It includes people like Mr.
Dan Daly, Mr. Jan Zilmer, Ms. Susan Walker, Mr. Roger Moore, Mr. Roy Kroker,
myself, Mr. Jim Aversa, and Mr. Ward Crowell.
People involved in all different aspects of the organization and they
are collectively now putting together the budget process so you get the benefit
of all those different perspectives.
There was a time in the past where an individual did that and you would
unfortunately not see certain elements detailed or represented as they could be. The reason I am telling you that is those
same people as we pull through this budget development process are the same
people that in the next couple of months should be addressing how we flush out
these actual steps. Our schedule on the
budget process is in about a month we should be able to present you with a
draft budget and then we will have time to workshop the budget in more
detail. That being in the June and July
timeframe and then you will have the August and September timeframe for actual
public hearings and of course it will be adopted and completed before the end
of September and the start of the fiscal year.
The key to this is where do we go from here with the focus, the goals,
the good ideas, and the taking action steps.
To actually be able to do it is going to require some structural and
process changes. It is going to require
some resources and as far as the application of certain people doing certain
things and are many of the same things we need to detail and flush out as you
go through a very comprehensive budget development process.
Mr. Fennell stated these issues normally start coming up in June and it is
April so we are good. The first thing to
be addressed is the accounting issue.
The accounting system is broken.
Here is what I see, we have our own accountant that person has sometimes
gone back and forth between Gary L. Moyer and us and the computer was that way,
too. With Ms. Archer she was the thing
that tied it all together. I see from my
limited viewpoint of accounting we have certain real issues. Number 1 Severn Trent has its own accounting
system, a new operating system. Where is
the new system located?
Mr. Keller responded University Drive.
Mr. Fennell stated you have put together a new system that was meant to be
your own accounting system, not only for you internally but for serving the
other people. The issue is we have our
own accounting system that does not tie in well with the new system, to the
extent our accountant is not on the new system so there has been a division in
the accounting function. There is also a
division now in accountability. The
accounting and buying system usually has three groups, the person purchasing,
the person paying the bills and somebody should be monitoring. It is not clear to me who these people are or
if they are working well together. It is
pretty clear who it is here at CSID but our treasurer does not reside on the
premises and the impression I get is the system you have is set up not for
outsiders to be in but as a self-contained system. There were a couple of questions I left you
with last meeting. One was is our
accountant going to be allowed on the new system and the other was how you
really monitor what goes on here with somebody down the street. Just from an accounting standpoint, I see
real issues. We need internal monitoring
of our own people and they need to be in the system that somebody else is
monitoring. As I understand it we did
not have a transition time to accommodate them.
Mr. Keller stated we agree it needs to be addressed and addressed
immediately. I had some additional
discussion on Friday with the Vice President, Mr. Ed Goscicki and the Director
of Treasury Services, Ms. Karen Ellis.
What we can do; first is it possible CSID and the accounting practices
here be allowed to participate with the new operating software that is being
incorporated by Severn Trent to all of the other scores of districts we provide
financial management services for and the answer is yes, it is possible. The way we can do that and it ties into the
whole issue we have talked about before with signatures on the checks and who
signs as treasurer and who takes those responsibilities. There does need to be that kind of monitoring
and that kind of a role, Ms. Ellis is proceeding to do those things with the
banks to secure the changes in terms of being able to sign on the checks for
both her name and my name. What it will
require is her being directly involved in monitoring, supervising and working
directly with the District accountants so they do know what they do. The District accountant remains an employee
of the District but would work directly with and be supervised by the Treasury
Director to have the kind of checks, balances and monitoring to give integrity
to the system, sign off as the treasurer, sign off on the checks and then I
believe it may be possible to utilize the operating system as well.
Mr. Fennell stated so it is possible for us to go to the new system up to
this point it has not been. Half of the
friction we see is that issue alone.
Mr. Keller stated I am telling you in one day’s time we are going to find
out if it is a possibility. Can I tell
you it is an absolute? The answer I got
was it is a possibility if we can put this package together.
Mr. Daly stated two months ago I asked Mr. Goscicki this very same question
about the software, he said he had access to it.
Mr. Fennell stated this is becoming an issue where everything was open to
everybody before and now we run into a case where we have a private business
that actually has records it wants to keep to itself and not seen by our
accountants. Which is a problem most
accounting firms have. They do not share
records with other people. Most small
companies have their own accountant/bookkeeper and they have their own
accounting firm who watches what they do, that is not unusual so I am trying to
figure where you guys are coming from, how do you position yourself?
Mr. Keller responded the issue with the new operating system to this day is
it is still being migrated and integrated, I cannot tell you it is 100%
complete but it is getting close. The
issue as I understand it is with the IT personnel and security, in terms of who
has access to it because it actually ties into many of the other operating systems
and mainframe and it is a security issue.
I cannot speak ultimately for the position Severn Trent is going to take
but my understanding is it is possible if you put those other checks and
balances in place. You are right that is
the standard as far as a good business practice, it is the standard in
government accounting, it is the standard that you always have; a financial
manager who works with the accountant.
There is a system of checks and balances, you separate payments and
receipts because it is just a good business practice.
Mr. Fennell stated it is a possibility but we do not have
confirmation. Let’s take it back the
other way. We have a perfectly good
machine sitting here, which is doing ours, North Springs and a couple of others
accounting, billing, and payroll as well as running the computers for this
office. This is more than an off-site
system this is our computer system. I
looked the guy up in the computer from IBM and they have a more modern one but
they have a certain block computer that is meant to do this and you were right
this thing does not go obsolete they have upgrades to it. The software and business software is written
for this machine, for this series to do exactly what it is doing.
Mr. Keller asked is this running off of AS 400?
Mr. Daly responded yes. IBM makes
them so if you do not upgrade every six years or so you are costing out of
it. They will let you upgrade but right
now with plus, plus, plus you can pretty much buy a brand new machine for
$24,000 with three years of maintenance on it for what you would get with
keeping this one going and naturally you get the ability to upgrade the
operating system now. This system is at
the level we cannot upgrade the operating system anymore unless we change out
thousands of dollars of hardware, but it works great.
Mr. Fennell asked if we went to the other system wouldn’t we still have to
have this computer for the other in-house systems we are driving?
Mr. Daly responded if accounting went to the Severn Trent building and Ms.
Walker was able to log into there and do her work as you can do and the utility
billing system and programs are still AS 400 only. The payroll is AS 400 also because when the
system was purchased it was purchased as a modular type of thing. Everything dumped into the general ledger
systems. Any payroll or utility billing
or any other modules purchased or used dumped into a general ledger according
to a line item and a good accountant would pretty much have everything there at
their fingertips when they want to do a trial balance, et cetera. In this case, Ms. Walker or whatever
accountant, as they do for the other districts who bill through Severn Trent, I
prepare reports every month and send them over and they log all of the revenues
for water, sewer, et cetera, et cetera.
Mr. Fennell asked what was the plan for operating our system given that we
have the computers a half a mile away?
How was it going to serve this building?
Mr. Keller responded in terms of the new operating system there was always
a choice to go one-way or the other.
Mr. Fennell asked was it going to take over some of the functions? How could it?
Mr. Keller responded I do not claim to be the IT guy and you do not want to
ask me IT questions. There is capacity
in the system to do some of the work that needs to be done here.
Mr. Fennell stated the email for instance.
Is it going to do that?
Mr. Keller responded if your question was, was the intent to try to use
that system to take over all the functions; that was not the intent.
Mr. Fennell stated as I perceive this we have another computer out there,
which is a completely different type of system offline; which is doing a good
job of doing the accounting for remote sites, but it does not have all the
other functions we use. My question was;
is the change over planned and what about all the other issues and how are they
going to cover them? Why is this all
germane? Because do we need the computer
there or not becomes the question and can we just say okay we will go down the
street? It looks to me like we cannot,
it looks like we are using it for a half dozen other things around here.
Mr. Keller stated again I am not the IT expert but the financial management
software and the other things the mainframe does there, I do not know if it was
ever intended to do all the things being done here. Certainly, the financial management can be
done and still have the free standing functions here. You have those options.
Mr. Daly stated part of the underlying theme of the tirade that happened
Thursday between Ms. Walker and the accounting issue was not that she wanted to
be on that system but was she felt with the computer fees that have been paid
over the years we should have been upgraded on this system. I said I do not know if it is feasible when
they have taken all the databases off and put them on a brand new built to
order system.
Mr. Fennell stated she was also excluded.
We have not yet resolved this issue; which is basically that she was
told she cannot go on this system.
Mr. Keller stated under the structure that existed before with the package
that I am telling you now and putting all of the balances in place then I think
it is possible.
Mr. Fennell stated you have not said yes yet, but at least you are
reconsidering.
Mr. Keller stated I am not reconsidering I am just telling you what I was
told. We believe it is possible with
putting the total package together, which is probably a better system for
everybody concerned.
Mr. Fennell stated we may still need the computer system here unless I am
missing something. There are issues
here, the financial things that any company should have: who signs the checks,
who is the treasurer, how is the treasurer monitored, who is actually doing
it.
Mr. Hanks asked don’t you have a problem with the treasurer signing checks
off-site of what is happening here?
Mr. Fennell stated yes I do.
Mr. Eissler stated I have a major problem with it.
Mr. Hanks stated Mr. Keller signing a check is fine.
Mr. Keller stated it is not so much an issue of off-site. It is in terms of the working relationship
because one persons office is a half mile down the road does not matter today
with technology and being able to be done electronically. If they have a working relationship and all
the checks and balances are put in place and some of the separations, you
talked about before the District benefits from that system. You really need to have a financial manager
involved with the District accounting functions. I am not a financial manager but you need to
have one.
Mr. Fennell stated we did have with Ms. Rhonda Archer, even remotely, she
was still watching some of the things going on.
It is breaking down to three issues.
We are still going to need a computer here.
Mr. Daly stated we can operate on what we have. Severn Trent is going to spend money every
year to keep it going. There are
maintenance agreements, software and things you have to do because we are
mirrored right now, so if one of the discs goes down we call them they come out
and put another one in, nothing is ever lost.
We are using it a lot less now that we have 20 people who are not on it
all the time, but it will run from now until the cows come home. It does not become good money because of what
you are spending you can get brand new, top speed, today’s technology in a
two-year period for what you spent in one year.
To say we have to have it, it is prudent to look at it, but we do not
have to because this one will continue to run just as it has been.
Mr. Fennell asked is the letter on replacement still good?
Mr. Daly responded yes.
Mr. Fennell stated this should have been solved three months ago, so that
is a negative against Severn Trent. This
should not have been allowed to get to this point on several different issues
both from a financial standpoint but more from a morale standpoint. Going forward what we need to decide is
whether or not it is possible for us to get in that system, secondly is it
possible for us to use our current system and we either buy the computer or upgrade
it ourselves. Either one of those
systems requires we have correct financial items in place, there must be
supervision, checks and balances actively done, people signing checks even
though their signatures go on automatically really should be reviewing what is
going on. I saw not only the physical
issues going forward but the structural issues which I do not think your
treasurer is comfortable being treasurer.
Mr. Keller stated I do not want to speak for the Director of Treasury
Services, I think she is comfortable performing the function as long as all the
pieces fit together, but her position is how can she legitimately attest to the
validity of the system without being involved in the checks and balances and
put her name on it. I cannot tell you
about what happened in the months and years before but coming in and being
warned off in trying to address the issues and trying to make the changes we
think we need to be made for whatever reason, we are trying to look at ways to
improve upon it. I think in short order
we can have an answer on the availability of the new system. Ms. Ellis is already working on what needs to
be done in terms of check signing and the names being done; it should be done
in the next couple of weeks. We can find
out about selling or buying and on the financial end we know what we can do and
we can argue that and integrate into our existing operation.
Mr. Fennell stated there is a third option, which is we should go out and
look for another accountant. We can
contract out for accounting services there are a lot of little places
around. It does not look like Severn
Trent is comfortable in the current role it is playing. I want to maintain as much function as we can
in-house. I am not comfortable giving up
our entire function to Severn Trent; which one could almost say we have been
put in a position where it is going to happen.
Mr. Keller stated to be clear for the record the Director of Treasury
Services and the Vice President of Severn Trent have no problem working together
on that with the pieces we talked about here today. As long as the checks and balances are in
place, the supervision is there, we have no problem doing that what so ever as
long as we have all those pieces in place.
You cannot do some pieces of it and not have the other and expect
someone to attest to the regulations being in place without that. Why some of those things have not taken place
in the past or why some of those relationships are not there I cannot give you
all of those answers but this is what we can do to fix it.
Mr. Fennell stated it basically comes down to us using your system, us
buying and owning our own system or having an outside accounting management
service. We need to pick one of the
three and make it work. We need to
decide if we want an outside accounting service and still be viewed as a
manager still responsible for client finances.
Severn Trent is also going to have to be able to manage an outside
accounting source. Right now we do not
have a very good system.
Mr. Keller stated remember we are telling you the District accountant
remains the District accountant and an employee of the District.
Mr. Fennell stated we have our own accounting system and Severn Trent is
really the people who were supposed to be looking over it and they developed
their own system with their own accounting people and system and were not
integrated into our previous system.
Mr. Daly asked when you say system do you mean physical or software?
Mr. Fennell responded both. There is
the physical system and someone coming in and looking over the books. Because the new system came in they are
physically integrated into their own physical system not ours.
Mr. Daly stated it seems like we are discussing physical systems when what
really seemed to be happening is a personal or procedural problem manifesting
itself last Thursday.
Mr. Fennell stated what happened was the people and the accountants follow
the physical system. When the new system
got started they were no longer using this physical system. Everybody was not on the same system, they
divided the physical systems and when they did they essentially divided the
people, their communications and procedures.
The sources come from two different points.
One physically dividing up the accounting systems and putting them in
different places and secondly having people work.
Mr. Daly stated the building the accounting system is in now was never on
this system. There were 160 districts on
this system and the management and the employees at the other building were
not. There was never any oversight from
that building over here and when Manatron upgraded and built their own all 160
districts that were on this system for which Severn Trent did accounting were
put over on to it and were placed under one roof. They never talked to each other anyway no
matter what system.
Mr. Fennell asked who was watching?
Mr. Daly responded Ms. Archer, after that Mr. Hans, and Ms. Hayworth was
actively involved in any check written by Ms. Walker.
Mr. Keller stated if I am not mistaken, there were two operating systems at
the other office and there was a desire of course to reduce that down.
Mr. Daly stated all of the employees used to be here and then they moved to
the 8th floor over there and tunneled into the system. Across the hall or downstairs was the other
Manatron system.
Mr. Fennell asked where is our accountant located?
Mr. Daly responded here.
Mr. Keller stated it made good sense when it came time to upgrade those two
to move into one and merge and is what is taking place now and being fined
tuned. As far as any financial
management oversight within this building, my understanding and I worked with
Mr. Hans for a number of months, he was also not being a financial manager. His oversight was very limited so over time
you start to get reduction of the oversight of the checks, balances and
supervision. What has happened over the
last year, Ms. Hayworth reviews invoices and checks but that is only a limited
amount and does not involve the other practices that go on there.
Mr. Fennell stated we need to resolve this; it is one of the broken
things.
Mr. Daly stated one last thing about the computer system. You mentioned maybe we will buy it from
Severn Trent, that will require licensing of software. If there are overtures to Severn Trent that
we want to buy it, it needs to stay in Severn Trent’s name.
Mr. Fennell stated there are three possibilities here and is obvious we
have to do something. You need to put
yourself full-time and figure this one out or get someone else in here who
can. This one needs to be resolved
pronto.
Mr. Keller stated as I said before I can get you a final answer on the
issue to access of the operating system, but absent that if it is not
available, the other participation we talked about; the direct involvement with
the checks and balances, supervision with a financial manager, signing on as
the treasurer, we can do with or without the operating system. It will happen a lot faster than contracting
with an outside accounting service.
Mr. Fennell stated I need to hear concrete proposals. Right now we have our system we are using on
your computer with very weak financial control.
Mr. Keller stated we can move to do that very quickly.
Mr. Fennell stated we need to fix the financial controls issue and then we
have to fix what is our transition issue for us for the computer. It is our whole operating system here. We have an issue above and beyond your new financial
system. We need a transition plan and we
need a plan for a financial monitor.
Mr. Keller stated it is one of our responsibilities under the contract to
supervise the employees in the District and we are happy to do that side as
well as the other side and we can as long as we put all of the pieces together.
Mr. Fennell asked when can you have something? I really do not want to wait until the next
meeting. Call up each one of us and tell
us what is going on.
Mr. Keller stated qualitatively I can tell you right now that is what we
will proceed on; I can hopefully have an answer for you in a few days on the
operating system. Ms. Ellis is moving to
do the necessary paperwork to be able to sign on as the treasurer and we can
have her working on a close relationship with Ms. Walker.
Mr. Fennell stated there is the issue of sitting down and talking with the
appropriate people and telling them what is going on. Getting some of their input on this and what
they would like to see.
Mr. Keller stated it has been in short order while things have moved along
quickly the last day or two. Those are
the basic elements and we are prepared to do that.
Mr. Fennell stated you are going to call each of us by next Monday and tell
us what is going on.
Mr. Keller stated probably before the end of the week.
Mr. Daly asked did Mr. Goscicki ever say he was going to abandon this
system? He said something kind of
general to the North Springs board saying we are basically off this system now,
et cetera. It is a big deal because we
own the programs and we cannot use the programs if Severn Trent decides to take
the box and use the program somewhere else.
It cannot be used twice.
Mr. Keller responded I have not heard him say he is going to abandon the
system. Obviously, we are going to
utilize the software and some of the mainframes. That is one of the questions; what can we do
and how do the pieces fit together.
Mr. Daly stated I can provide you
with what it cost Severn Trent for a year to keep this going.
Mr. Fennell asked are software licenses negotiable?
Mr. Daly stated yes they are. Severn
Trent was going to go with credit card payments as we do here. They have a box in Houston with the same
programs we have, it was purchased the same day. I called them up and asked how much for two
and he doubled the price. He said no
they are not making a price for two because they felt they were within reason,
so we bought it and they did not because they thought the price was to
much. It was $50,000 for a software
module.
Mr. Fennell stated the license is a big issue. We have our accounting system with one
particular group that does utility billing.
Are you using the same software?
Mr. Daly responded no. This software
feeds one into another, into another, into another. They pretty much have one module for
accounting because Severn Trent uses ADP instead of payroll. I do the billing on this system for the eight
other districts of Severn Trent’s. They
do not need to make the investment of a utility billing program because they
made it.
Mr. Fennell asked who is writing your software?
Mr. Daly responded it was pretty much custom; we sat down in a meeting and
they said what would you like this to do and they were going to build a utility
billing software.
Mr. Keller stated there is an IT staff of several people at the other
building.
Mr. Fennell stated the problem with custom software is in four years all of
the IT people are gone and nobody knows how to write that stuff.
Mr. Keller stated usually what happens having been through some of these
migrations before; there is an open architecture and a basic structure to it
and a certain amount of design flexibility so you can tailor it towards your
specific needs.
Mr. Daly stated there is the point that I mention if Severn Trent decides
they want to use these programs then there is an issue with CSID because the
programs cannot reside on two licenses.
Mr. Fennell stated we still have three people paying a license. In addition, there is other stuff going on
the new system.
Mr. Keller stated it was a collapse from two to one at the other building.
Mr. Fennell asked what are you going to do with this system?
Mr. Keller responded I do not know that there was an intention to abandon
this system or necessarily to shift everything over but some functions could be
made available on that and some could be maintained here.
Mr. Eissler stated I would think Severn Trent was planning on taking over
the entire accounting system. As a
management company, they would do the whole ball of wax.
Mr. Keller stated I will be honest with you I have not heard that.
Mr. Eissler stated I am thinking out loud but if I was Severn Trent that is
what I would be thinking.
Mr. Fennell stated there was a real problem with this physical computer
doing other things here and I do not think they have a plan for that.
Mr. Keller stated I do not think there was a plan to try and eliminate it
with some other system elsewhere.
Remember that is concentrated on the financial management side and not
the other functions here.
Mr. Fennell asked what do you guys want to do with Severn Trent?
Mr. Daly responded I do not mind the way it is now. Ms. Walker was going off on the functionality
of the system, I think it had more to do with there are updated programs out
there by the same company that were never purchased and that being said the
system works fine the way it is now. It
is our hardware we cannot upgrade in the operating system without putting a lot
of expense into tape drives, et cetera, the new operating system only deals
with larger tape drives so we would have to change that out. When you talk about it then you are talking
$10,000. You can get a new machine with
three years warranty for that.
Mr. Fennell asked so maybe we can get a new machine then what?
Mr. Daly responded then it is a matter of software.
Mr. Fennell stated I saw in your estimate, the operating cost of the
software is fairly expensive. Before we
were dividing the cost between a lot of different groups and now we are down to
four of us.
Mr. Daly stated maybe it is just one.
CSID spent $50,000 as a line item for the use of this computer over the
last five years and another $70,000 for the software.
Mr. Fennell stated I am interested in what you and Ms. Walker want to
propose. I also want to see what you
recommend. I am looking for two recommendations.
Mr. Keller stated we will get back with you before the end of the week.
There are some variables and elements that go with it.
Mr. Fennell stated I understand and Ms. Walker should understand that she
should want this, she needs to have someone else looking over her
shoulder. She needs to have it just for
herself, in the accounting function you better have it, you do not want to be
hanging out there by yourself.
Mr. Keller stated exactly, it is go for everybody.
Mr. Hanks asked when you say accounting is that a CPA?
Mr. Fennell responded Ms. Walker is not a CPA, but we do need someone
somewhere.
Mr. Keller stated we do have others who can provide that service.
Mr. Fennell stated the Board considers this the top priority of all the
issues that came out. It has to be
fixed. Looking over it we have to decide
what we are going to do with the equipment but first we have to decide the
accounting structure.
Mr. Fennell
stated one of the things I carried away from this list is we need to make sure
the things we overview and how we eventually line up the organization is in
fact dependent upon customers needs and quality. Are we in fact pleasing our customers and I
am looking for ways to do that. What
customer complaints do we have this month?
I am still looking for control systems that will solve odor problems
quicker when we do have one and response time.
Mr. Moore stated I do not know how broad you want it.
Mr. Fennell stated just a piece of paper. Problems we had and what we did to solve and
control them.
Mr. Moore stated let us put something together for you
for the next Board meeting. What you are
going to find is we may have a complaint because someone got a $400 water bill
so it may take a month by the time he calls, we send a crew out to check the
meter and it could be an ongoing process.
To show the complaint as a line item may not be fair to both parties
until we have action and completion.
Nine times out of ten it is something like they have a leak on their
side. We may clean three sewers a
week. Do you want that to come to you?
Mr. Fennell responded yes.
Mr. Eissler stated in some sort of keeping in the
operating that may clue us in. You have
an awful lot on your shoulders and to you it may not seem like something, but
all of a sudden it is the fourth sewer clean out you had out in Maplewood
Isles, what is going on there? Do we
need to take a look at other remedies? Things
along those lines.
Mr. Fennell stated typically when you list problems you
can follow up with quick steps being investigated, solved this and did
this. It should not be real long.
Mr. Eissler stated to give us a status. This is the concerns raised and if we choose
to bring it up for discussion.
Mr. Daly asked do we want to follow up with the customers
with a questionnaire about the service they received?
Mr. Fennell responded it might be a good thing but for
now just get us the complaints.
FIFTH ORDER
OF BUSINESS Supervisor’s
Request and Audience Comments
There not being any, the next item followed.
SIXTH ORDER OF BUSINESS Approval
of Invoices
There being no comments or
questions,
On MOTION by Mr. Eissler seconded by Mr.
Hanks with all in favor the April Invoices were approved.
SEVENTH ORDER OF BUSINESS Adjournment
There being no further business,
On MOTION by Mr. Fennell seconded by Mr.
Hanks with all in favor the meeting was adjourned.
Glen Hanks Robert
Fennell
Secretary President